Good debate going, so let me throw some fuel onto the fire.
1. Â I specifically did call out that the point I was making was NOT inclusive of operating considerations – and that while those should be included in a USER decision – the reality is they are often not. Â Deal with it.
2. Â The customer area of focus for my point is the COMMERCIAL IT buyer – the traditional folks who pay lots and lots of money to run – albeit sometimes badly – IT shops. Â That’s where the big money sits, and that’s where we all seem to refuse to acknowledge the realities of this nascent market.
The actual buyers of public cloud infrastructure services from the commercial world today fall largely into a few categories; small businesses/new businesses, and fringe/rogue individuals/groups frustrated with internal IT service delivery (those developers who go to Amazon instead of internal IT). Â New entrepreneurial ventures – especially those second time around folks – are fast adopters of all things cloud. Â As they grow and time moves on, they will become the way, but for the next 10 years, they will remain a small slice of the money pie.
Established commercial entities do not represent a signficant population/market – at least for now – for infrastructure services in the cloud (public) – but instead spend all their cloud money on APPLICATION services (SalesForce) or private cloud services.
3. Â Application services in the cloud are “persistent” while infrastructure services tend to be “transient”. Â The developer using Amazon is renting short term stuff – but the company using SalesForce is in it for the long haul. Â My backup service is far more persistent than my need to rent some compiling cycles.
4. Â If you are only providing pure infrastructure services you better be big, fast. Â I contend that you will find only a very few providers ultimately – the same way that other major industries have consolidated down to those best positioned to deliver – such as what has occurred in the Telco and Cell phone industries. Â The huge investment required for global infrastructure -and the ability to transact directly with the buyer – limits the prospects for most entries to make any significant sustainable independent play. Â Regional domination is at best what most can hope for, then an acquisition by a bigger player. Â History proves this model out time and time again.
Therefore, I contend that from a pure infrastructure services perspective, the most likely successful entities to remain standing will be the major Telco’s. Â They have the bandwidth relationships already – thus are the Internet pathways – that lead to and from the cloud infrastructure, and as such have the best possible position to add services onto their clients’ bill. Â As they do today, they will buy their equipment and expertise from the lucky few they choose to deal with – but they will most likely own the customer. Â I am NOT saying they are better than you at delivering anything – I’m saying they are in a much better position than you are to do so.
5. That means that if you are providing infrastructure services in the cloud, you best start bringing higher level application value to the party or you are inevitably going to be toast unless you are one of the big giants left standing. Â EMC Atmos/ATT is a lot like Apple iPhone/ATT. Â We bitch about ATT but if you want an iPhone, what are you gonna do? You don’t see a lot of new entrants into the Cell phone provider business these days, do you? Â You need to have a sticky reason for customers to want you – and it can’t be “i’m cheaper” per GB. Â That is the point I was making. Â If we can argue about what’s really cheaper already, what hope do we have? Â Basic economics – little guy can’t be cheaper than big guy unless the big guy lets them. Â Fact. Â Little guy can be better at something – but unless the consumer can put legitimate value upon that something, you aren’t going to get paid long term.
Part of the problem is humanity and emotion. Â There is a very big difference between “wanting” something to happen and it happening. Â We “know” that a fifty year old manufacturing company will be better served by not dealing with their IT stuff internally and heading to the clouds, and we “want” them to do so – but that just isn’t realistic. Â What “should” happen is normally not what “does” happen. Â How is Star Office treating you?
Wishful thinking is what the SSP rage in the early 2000′s brought us – an overfunded, overhyped circus that never had any sustainable legitimate business value – because even though it was “better”, better didn’t matter. Â Commercial concerns that had existing legacy operations were simply not going to hand over those functions to someone external, no matter how much they hated it. Â The reward never surpassed the risk.
Big commercial entities are telling all of us the deal, but we’re not listening. Â If a company has no vested existing interest in IT – they will go cloud right away. Â After all, who in their right mind would want to go through this hell? Â If they have decades of existing IT operational interests, they won’t – at least not to the public cloud. Â The key is to take what you are given – take a piece, and add value. Â By providing the customer a means to prove the service worthy, without risk, you enable them to accelerate their could offload decisions. Â This is exactly why desktop backup has been a winning cloud offering – not because of the infrastructure, but because IT doesn’t deal with desktop backup!
My friend Stephen Foskett thinks I’m evil for failing to point out that cap-ex is only a small part of the cost picture. Â Alas, he misses my point – which is this: Â no matter what, for existing IT operations, there will be questions when there are significant cost discrepancies. Â And, as soon as someone questions the cost structure of doing it internally with people we already pay, on gear we already support, then the service provider is on the defensive – and that is a shitty place to be. Â As soon as the conversation slips from the legitimate value provided to the baseline commodity cost discussion, the game is over.
What Steve should realize, is this is NOT the argument. Â Instead, the reason his company has customers has little or nothing to do with the fact that they sell capacity. Â It is what that capacity is used for – what application can Nirvanix provide that builds value and utility to the assets residing on it. Â He himself commented positively when I reported that things such as auditing were critical gates to commercial banks adopting cloud services (above security, which surprised me) – he rightfully noted that the Nirvanix platforms’ value was built on being able to provide audit ready services. Â That is value add – application value add. Â Capacity isn’t.
Others commented/noted some other things I Â found interesting. Â People love to argue with me for saying I can buy 1TB for a few hundred dollars – that it “isn’t the same” as buying mission critical gear. Â Sometimes that is true – but not always, not anymore. Â One person spoke about how with Amazon, they are getting replication to two sites. Â Really? Â How do you know that? Â Why would anyone assume that Amazon is using anything better than my cheapo RAID stuff? Â I would contend that they aren’t. Â For their model to make money, they can’t use traditional core mission critical stuff. Â That’s the bigger truth here – you don’t know what they use. Â They aren’t telling you. Â They are telling you that you can have X capacity for Y price. Â That’s it. Â They could be putting your data on wax rolls spun by monkeys for all you know.
We’ve been raised to assume that if it’s cheap, it sucks. Â While historically I agree with this, Gmail and Yahoo Mail changed my opinion on this subject. Â You can no longer make the assumption that cheap or free is inferior. Â But lets face facts, I have way more trouble with my expensive Microsoft stuff than anything else. Â You simply can’t make this argument carte blanche anymore.
The cloud “industry” will evolve to this:
A: Big players will provide 90% of the infrastructure services – and it will rapidly commoditize. Â Amazon will continue to dominate the “no value” commodity market, and a few big guys can take the “mission critical” business prize (this is what EMC, HP, IBM, etc. are fighting for). Â I don’t see any room long-term for “in betweeners”.
B: Bigger players who own the customer relationship (and plumbing connections) will be the true leverage points. Â Telco’s are key.
C: Application value is the key success metric for widespread adoption and new value creation – aka $$$$. Â Don’t try to be the next Amazon – try to be the next SalesForce. Â You can succeed as an independent if you add legit value. Â I’d rather license functionality to Verizon or Orange rather than raise a trillion dollars and attempt to out-do them in their markets.
Let’s call Amazon the modern, wiser version of StorageNetworks. Â Just as the other 894 wanna-be SSP’s went away, so will those who want to compete with Amazon on the same terms. Â What came out of the SSP era? Â Backup service providers. Â A legitimate value add and market need. Â Capacity providers died, but backup service providers remain a vibrant, healthy business. Â Amazon’s wisdom is that they aren’t trying to pretend (at least so far) that their value is anything more than it is – they are commoditizing THEMSELVES so others can’t. Â Trying to beat the incumbent in a market where the only value is commodity services is LUNACY. Â Adding true value on top of that commodity is where the real value (and $$$) lies – for you and your customers.
In the meantime, if all you offer is a commodity, you best make it unquestionably cheap. Â We’ll chat again at your next venture…..
Related posts:
- Reverse Cloud Economics
- Why the Cloud will Vaporize
- Scarcity Continued….
- Cloud Apps That Make Sense – Hint: Backup isn’t One
- Cloud Control: Lessons Learned From Iron Mountain
Tags: Amazon, Cloud, economics, EMC Atmos, Orange, SalesForce, StorageNetworks, Verizon




In this blog I look beyond the obvious and try to find out why people and companies do what they do - and what it means for the rest of us.
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An excellent follow-up, Steve, and I think you’re really getting somewhere here. Any time a new technology comes along, there is a temptation to sell it on price. This is especially true if the price is actually substantially less. But there is so much more than price in play with cloud storage. Far be it from me to put words in your mouth, but this series looks to me like a question: What do you have that’s so special?
This is the same question I hear all the time. Isn’t this just SSP 2.0? Isn’t this just the same old stuff wrapped up in a new word (cloud)? End users and analysts are right to be skeptical, and can be forgiven for dusting off the old “dumb disk” strawman as a way to start the conversation.
The truth is that major companies are using public cloud computing and storage services today. They’re not moving everything to it, and they’re giving it a thorough examination before taking the plunge, but they’re doing it. And they’re not just doing it because it’s cheaper (which it is) but because it offers them compelling benefits:
- They can get their data off-site immediately for compliance reasons and can distribute it geographically from there for DR
- They can offload the effort and focus of managing the part of their storage capacity that isn’t their core concern so they can focus on their real business
- They can move certain content outside the firewall to a programmable storage platform, enabling new services like collaboration and content distribution
No one has a crystal ball and can see which service providers will succeed and fail in this market. The telcos did OK after the collapse of the hosting business and SSPs, but they didn’t walk away holding all the marbles. In fact, that market is shared by a large number of mid- and large-sized companies. The winners were determined by their ability to offer a differentiated product or an integrated stack or both. I think the same will happen here – “cloud” services like compute and storage will evolve, cast off that silly name, and thrive (as you say) based not on their price point but on their unique value-add.
One great value is integration of the whole stack, from client to hardware and software to operation. This enables all sorts of features that a Lego-brick approach can’t deliver and (yes) allows a lower price point. Looks like a winner!
And no, I don’t think you’re evil. You just like stirring things up, and we all love you for it!
This discussion is a very interesting one to me, both in this post and the Part 1 post. Caveat – I work in the Storage industry, but my company is a strong supporter of the Cloud. Basically, we don’t care if someone gets storage direct from us, or from a.n.other source – if we don’t sell to you, we’ll sell to them.
The most resilient storage in the business doesn’t just sit there and take reads and writes in a corner. A SAN or NAS array is made up of disks that fail, and requires network to be administered and storage to be administered. So you need to calculate personnel costs as well. I’d be very surprised if you could find someone reliable who could manage your storage in the 20TB range for $10k per year blended salary rate leftover for ‘admin’ in your model. Unless you trust your colo folks to manage your storage as well, which I would find *very* dangerous – that’s not what they do, and they are not generally subject-matter experts in this area.
Next, the best guarantee in the business for utilization (shameless plug here for my company – Pillar Data Systems) for SAN or NAS-attached storage is 80%. Most of our competitors average 40% usable space. So your 20TB array has only 16TB max (if you buy from http://www.pillardata.com) usable space – you’ll have to buy 25TB from us, or 50TB from our competitors, to give you 20TB usable space.
You’re also forgetting growth – data doesn’t stay at a static level over 4 years, or the business is dead, and it doesn’t matter what business that is – transaction records pile up, emails pile up, stored customer data piles up, and most data retention requirements for SOX / HIPAA / Data Protection Act are 7 years now.
Add up footprint, power, network, air con, management, support agreements, management overhead (i.e. configuring and managing things touching the service), data growth, etc etc etc and it is a far more expensive play to host your own storage than to go for the Cloud until you get to fairly high data requirements – say over 50TB usable.
But that’s not the reason pay for local storage – customers want (or need) the capability to have their data local to their environment for a variety of reasons. Some of our customers can’t even let a failed Hard Drive leave their data centres, because of data security requirements. Some have audit requirements (especially financial services) which mean that the data must physically be present in a given location and can be audited from there. Some want to be able to dynamically grow their storage quickly, and thus want to have physical management of it locally. Some just don’t want to pay for big pipes for all their users, and instead want to have big pipes only within their infrastructure and within their buildings. And some don’t trust the security, or don’t want to trust someone else’s security, for their business critical data.
YMMV, but that’s my experience.
[...] accessibility and promote usage but also limit the impact of the platform. As Steve Duplessie points out, cloud storage offerings must include real strategic value rather than being sold simply as cheap [...]
[...] two very interesting posts (see http://www.thebiggertruth.com/2009/09/reverse-cloud-economics/ and http://www.thebiggertruth.com/2009/09/cloud-economics-continued/). He points out that while a terabyte of cloud storage at $150 GB/month seems pretty reasonable, [...]